Escolher grupo de bolas e anunciar SAFE ao mesmo tempo

[nuno bernardes]

Parece-me que estas são regras oficiais mundiais.

DISCLAIMER: This file contains property copyrighted by the Billiard Congress of America. Any modification or sale of the information herein is strictly prohibited by the laws governing that copyright. Please direct questions regarding interpretation of the following, or information on how to receive the current BCA "Billiards - The Official Rules and Records book" to the Billiard Congress of America at 910 23rd Avenue, Coralville, IA 52241. Phone: 319-351-2112, Fax: 319-351-7767.
8-BALL

[Standardized World Rules 1997]

Except when clearly contradicted by these additional rules, the General Rules of Pocket Billiards apply.
posting.php?mode=edit&f=7&p=46570

Em inglês.

13. "SAFETY" SHOT. For tactical reasons a player may choose to pocket an obvious object ball and also discontinue his turn at the table by declaring "safety" in advance. A safety shot is defined as a legal shot. If the shooting player intends to play safe by pocketing an obvious object ball, then prior to the shot, he must declare a "safety" to his opponent. If this is NOT done, and one of the shooter's object balls is pocketed, the shooter will be required to shoot again. Any ball pocketed on a safety shot remains pocketed.

Em Português traduzido no google.

13. "SEGURANÇA" SHOT. Por razões táticas, um jogador pode escolher para embolsar uma bola de objeto óbvio e também interromper a sua vez na mesa, declarando "segurança" com antecedência. Um tiro de segurança é definido como um tiro legal. Se o jogador tem a intenção de fotografar, por precaução, embolsando uma bola de objeto óbvio, então, antes de o tiro, ele deve declarar uma "segurança" para seu oponente. Se isso não for feito, e uma das bolas do atirador objeto é encaçapada, o atirador será obrigado a atirar novamente. Qualquer bola embolsou em um tiro segurança continua a ser encaçapada

Alguem melhor que eu a ler e a traduzir inglês me sabe explicar o que é dito aqui????

[rochinha25]

Nuno, essa regra que puseste aí em inglês diz respeito àquela que todos conhecemos sobre o safe. Mas não traz nada de novo já que não faz referência ao problema que aqui levantámos. Parece-me que não há regra que diga que podes escolher grupo e dizer safe ao mesmo tempo. Assim como o contrário, logicamente. Continuo confuso sobre essa questão.

[nuno bernardes]

9. 8-BALL POCKETED ON THE BREAK. If the 8-ball is pocketed on the break, the breaker may ask for a re-rack or have the 8-ball spotted and continue shooting. If the breaker scratches while pocketing the 8-ball on the break, the incoming player has the option of a re-rack or having the 8-ball spotted and begin shooting with ball in hand behind the headstring.

10. OPEN TABLE. (Defined) The table is "open" when the choice of groups (stripes or solids) has not yet been determined. When the table is open, it is legal to hit a solid first to make a stripe or vice-versa. Note: The table is always open immediately after the break shot. When the table is open it is legal to hit any solid or stripe or the 8-ball first in the process of pocketing the called stripe or solid. However, when the table is open and the 8-ball is the first ball contacted, no stripe or solid may be scored in favor of the shooter. The shooter loses his turn; any balls pocketed remain pocketed; and the incoming player addresses the balls with the table still open. On an open table, all illegally pocketed balls remain pocketed.

11. CHOICE OF GROUP. The choice of stripes or solids is not determined on the break even if balls are made from only one or both groups. THE TABLE IS ALWAYS OPEN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE BREAK SHOT. The choice of group is determined only when a player legally pockets a called object ball after the break shot.

12. LEGAL SHOT. (Defined) On all shots (except on the break and when the table is open), the shooter must hit one of his group of balls first and (1) pocket a numbered ball, or (2) cause the cue ball or any numbered ball to contact a rail.

PLEASE NOTE: It is permissable for the shooter to bank the cue ball off a rail before contacting his object ball; however, after contact with his object ball, an object ball must be pocketed, OR the cue ball or any numbered ball must contact a rail. Failure to meet these requirements is a foul.

13. "SAFETY" SHOT. For tactical reasons a player may choose to pocket an obvious object ball and also discontinue his turn at the table by declaring "safety" in advance. A safety shot is defined as a legal shot. If the shooting player intends to play safe by pocketing an obvious object ball, then prior to the shot, he must declare a "safety" to his opponent. If this is NOT done, and one of the shooter's object balls is pocketed, the shooter will be required to shoot again. Any ball pocketed on a safety shot remains pocketed.

Alguem me consegue dizer incluindo tu Viseu onde é óbvio que não se pode dizer safety na escolha de bolas????????????????

[nuno bernardes]

Já agora gostava que o Viseu me responde-se, qual é a base que justifica não se poder dizer safety na escolha de bolas????? ao ponto de dares essa resposta.

"...em todo o mundo é assim ponto."

[nuno bernardes]

O melhor é colocar aqui todas as regras oficiais no mundo e pelo meu fraco inglês pode-me ter passado algo, por isso gostava que alguem que perceba perfeitamente inglês me responda concretamente.

DISCLAIMER: This file contains property copyrighted by the Billiard Congress of America. Any modification or sale of the information herein is strictly prohibited by the laws governing that copyright. Please direct questions regarding interpretation of the following, or information on how to receive the current BCA "Billiards - The Official Rules and Records book" to the Billiard Congress of America at 910 23rd Avenue, Coralville, IA 52241. Phone: 319-351-2112, Fax: 319-351-7767.
8-BALL

[Standardized World Rules 1997]

Except when clearly contradicted by these additional rules, the General Rules of Pocket Billiards apply.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. OBJECT OF THE GAME. Eight Ball is a call shot game played with a cue ball and fifteen object balls, numbered 1 through 15. One player must pocket balls of the group numbered 1 through 7 (solid colors), while the other player has 9 thru 15 (stripes). THE PLAYER POCKETING HIS GROUP FIRST AND THEN LEGALLY POCKETING THE 8-BALL WINS THE GAME.

2. CALL SHOT. In Call Shot, obvious balls and pockets do not have to be indicated. It is the opponent's right to ask which ball and pocket if he is unsure of the shot. Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket. When calling the shot, it is NEVER necessary to indicate details such as the number of cushions, banks, kisses, caroms, etc. Any balls pocketed on a foul remain pocketed, regardless of whether they belong to the shooter or the opponent.

The opening break is not a "called shot." Any player performing a break shot in 8-Ball may continue to shoot his next shot so long as he has legally pocketed any object ball on the break.

3. RACKING THE BALLS. The balls are racked in a triangle at the foot of the table with the 8-ball in the center of the triangle, the first ball of the rack on the footspot, a stripe ball in one corner of the rack and a solid ball in the other corner.

4. ALTERNATING BREAK. Winner of the lag has the option to break. During individual competition, players will alternate breaking on each subsequent game.

5. JUMP AND MASSE SHOT FOUL. While "cue ball fouls only" is the rule of play when a match is not presided over by a referee, a player should be aware that it will be considered a cue ball foul if during an attempt to jump, curve or masse the cue ball over or around an impeding numbered ball that is not a legal object ball, the impeding ball moves (regardless of whether it was moved by a hand, cue stick follow-through or bridge).

6. LEGAL BREAK SHOT. (Defined) To execute a legal break, the breaker (with the cue ball behind the headstring) must either (1) pocket a ball, or (2) drive at least four numbered balls to the rail. If he fails to make a legal break, it is a foul, and the incoming player has the option of (1) accepting the table in position and shooting, or (2) having the balls reracked and having the option of shooting the opening break himself or allowing the offending player to rebreak.

7. SCRATCH ON A LEGAL BREAK. If a player scratches on a legal break shot, (1) all balls pocketed remain pocketed (exception, the 8-ball: see rule 9), (2) it is a foul, (3) the table is open. PLEASE NOTE: Incoming player has cue ball in hand behind the head string and may not shoot an object ball that is behind the head string, unless he first shoots the cue ball past the headstring and causes the cue ball to come back behind the headstring and hit the object ball.

8. OBJECT BALLS JUMPED OFF THE TABLE ON THE BREAK. If a player jumps an object ball off the table on the break shot, it is a foul and the incoming player has the option of (1) accepting the table in position and shooting, or (2) taking cue ball in hand behind the head string and shooting.

9. 8-BALL POCKETED ON THE BREAK. If the 8-ball is pocketed on the break, the breaker may ask for a re-rack or have the 8-ball spotted and continue shooting. If the breaker scratches while pocketing the 8-ball on the break, the incoming player has the option of a re-rack or having the 8-ball spotted and begin shooting with ball in hand behind the headstring.

10. OPEN TABLE. (Defined) The table is "open" when the choice of groups (stripes or solids) has not yet been determined. When the table is open, it is legal to hit a solid first to make a stripe or vice-versa. Note: The table is always open immediately after the break shot. When the table is open it is legal to hit any solid or stripe or the 8-ball first in the process of pocketing the called stripe or solid. However, when the table is open and the 8-ball is the first ball contacted, no stripe or solid may be scored in favor of the shooter. The shooter loses his turn; any balls pocketed remain pocketed; and the incoming player addresses the balls with the table still open. On an open table, all illegally pocketed balls remain pocketed.

11. CHOICE OF GROUP. The choice of stripes or solids is not determined on the break even if balls are made from only one or both groups. THE TABLE IS ALWAYS OPEN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE BREAK SHOT. The choice of group is determined only when a player legally pockets a called object ball after the break shot.

12. LEGAL SHOT. (Defined) On all shots (except on the break and when the table is open), the shooter must hit one of his group of balls first and (1) pocket a numbered ball, or (2) cause the cue ball or any numbered ball to contact a rail.

PLEASE NOTE: It is permissable for the shooter to bank the cue ball off a rail before contacting his object ball; however, after contact with his object ball, an object ball must be pocketed, OR the cue ball or any numbered ball must contact a rail. Failure to meet these requirements is a foul.

13. "SAFETY" SHOT. For tactical reasons a player may choose to pocket an obvious object ball and also discontinue his turn at the table by declaring "safety" in advance. A safety shot is defined as a legal shot. If the shooting player intends to play safe by pocketing an obvious object ball, then prior to the shot, he must declare a "safety" to his opponent. If this is NOT done, and one of the shooter's object balls is pocketed, the shooter will be required to shoot again. Any ball pocketed on a safety shot remains pocketed.

14. SCORING. A player is entitled to continue shooting until he fails to legally pocket a ball of his group. After a player has legally pocketed all of his group of balls, he shoots to pocket the 8-ball.

15. FOUL PENALTY. Opposing player gets cue ball in hand. This means that the player can place the cue ball anywhere on the table (does not have to be behind the headstring except on opening break). This rule prevents a player from making intentional fouls which would put his opponent at a disadvantage. With "cue ball in hand," the player may use his hand or any part of his cue (including the tip) to position the cue ball. When placing the cue ball in position, any forward stroke motion contacting the cue ball will be a foul, if not a legal shot. (Also see Rule 39 in the General Rules of Pocket Billiards)

16. COMBINATION SHOTS. combination shots are allowed; however, the 8-ball cannot be used as a first ball in the combination except when the table is open.

17. ILLEGALLY POCKETED BALLS. An object ball is considered to be illegally pocketed when (1) that object ball is pocketed on the same shot a foul is committed, or (2) the called ball did not go in the designated pocket, or (3) a safety is called prior to the shot. Illegally pocketed balls remain pocketed.

18. OBJECT BALLS JUMPED OFF THE TABLE. If any object ball is jumped off the table, it is a foul and loss of turn, unless it is the 8-ball, which is a loss of game. Any jumped object balls are spotted in numerical order according to General Rules for spotting balls.

19. PLAYING THE 8-BALL. When shooting at the 8-ball, a scratch or foul is not loss of game if the 8-ball is not pocketed or jumped from the table. Incoming player has cue ball in hand. Note: A combination shot can never be used to legally pocket the 8-ball.

20. LOSS OF GAME. A player loses the game if he commits any of the following infractions:

a. Fouls when pocketing the 8-ball (exception: see 8-Ball Pocketed On The Break).

b. Pockets the 8-ball on the same stroke as the last of his group of balls.

c. Jumps the 8-ball off the table at any time.

d. Pockets the 8-ball in a pocket other than the one designated.

e. Pockets the 8-ball when it is not the legal object ball.

Note: All infractions must be called before another shot is taken, or else it will be deemed that no infraction occurred.

21. STALEMATED GAME. If, after 3 consecutive turns at the table by each player (6 turns total), the referee judges (or if no referee, both players agree) that attempting to pocket or move an object ball will result in loss of game, the balls will be reracked with the original breaker of the stalemated game breaking again. The stalemate rule may only be used when there are only two object balls and the 8-ball remaining on the table. PLEASE NOTE: Three consecutive fouls by one player is not a loss of game.

[Davidaniel]

Realmente uma questão muito boa para colocar, até porque nós aqui por esta zona quando dizemos safe na 1ª jogada mesmo a bola sendo embolsada o adversário continua com mesa aberta, mas realmente não sei se será mesmo assim , embora que pelo que vejo a outras zonas a jogar da mesma forma que nós, talvez esta seja mais uma questão para o Sr António Neves mandar vir das mais altas instâncias

Esta não preciso de perguntar, pois é obvia.

No entanto, se alguém quiser apostar algum lololol, eu dou-me ao trabalho de perguntar

Hahaha não perdes uma boa oportunidade de ganhar uns trocos :) sempre a espera de um patinho , agora sem brincar por acaso desde que aprendi as regras, sempre me ensinaram essa regra, que se o adversário disser safe com mesa aberta, a mesma continua aberta na nossa jogada portanto nesta regra pelo menos parece que não estamos enganados e estamos de acordo.

[Antonio Neves]

Bolinhas, loiro, lolol

É obvio que não podes anunciar buraco em safe lololol
Se anuncias-te buraco, é porque queres que a bola conta, se a bola conta, está escolhida serie, mas, tens de ser tu a jogar de novo.

[Antonio Neves]

Parece-me que estas são regras oficiais mundiais.

DISCLAIMER: This file contains property copyrighted by the Billiard Congress of America. Any modification or sale of the information herein is strictly prohibited by the laws governing that copyright. Please direct questions regarding interpretation of the following, or information on how to receive the current BCA "Billiards - The Official Rules and Records book" to the Billiard Congress of America at 910 23rd Avenue, Coralville, IA 52241. Phone: 319-351-2112, Fax: 319-351-7767.
8-BALL

[Standardized World Rules 1997]

Except when clearly contradicted by these additional rules, the General Rules of Pocket Billiards apply.
posting.php?mode=edit&f=7&p=46570

Em inglês.

13. "SAFETY" SHOT. For tactical reasons a player may choose to pocket an obvious object ball and also discontinue his turn at the table by declaring "safety" in advance. A safety shot is defined as a legal shot. If the shooting player intends to play safe by pocketing an obvious object ball, then prior to the shot, he must declare a "safety" to his opponent. If this is NOT done, and one of the shooter's object balls is pocketed, the shooter will be required to shoot again. Any ball pocketed on a safety shot remains pocketed.

Em Português traduzido no google.

13. "SEGURANÇA" SHOT. Por razões táticas, um jogador pode escolher para embolsar uma bola de objeto óbvio e também interromper a sua vez na mesa, declarando "segurança" com antecedência. Um tiro de segurança é definido como um tiro legal. Se o jogador tem a intenção de fotografar, por precaução, embolsando uma bola de objeto óbvio, então, antes de o tiro, ele deve declarar uma "segurança" para seu oponente. Se isso não for feito, e uma das bolas do atirador objeto é encaçapada, o atirador será obrigado a atirar novamente. Qualquer bola embolsou em um tiro segurança continua a ser encaçapada

Alguem melhor que eu a ler e a traduzir inglês me sabe explicar o que é dito aqui????

Nuno, é exactamentebonque eu dizia...

Uma bola em safe é legal porque, não é falta.

Apenas refere o obvio, se não disseres nada numa bola obvia, tens de jogar outra vez.

Nada do que aqui está escrito, contradiz a opinião que eu dei.

E, CONTINUO DISPONÍVEL PARA APOSTAR

[Antonio Neves]

9. 8-BALL POCKETED ON THE BREAK. If the 8-ball is pocketed on the break, the breaker may ask for a re-rack or have the 8-ball spotted and continue shooting. If the breaker scratches while pocketing the 8-ball on the break, the incoming player has the option of a re-rack or having the 8-ball spotted and begin shooting with ball in hand behind the headstring.

10. OPEN TABLE. (Defined) The table is "open" when the choice of groups (stripes or solids) has not yet been determined. When the table is open, it is legal to hit a solid first to make a stripe or vice-versa. Note: The table is always open immediately after the break shot. When the table is open it is legal to hit any solid or stripe or the 8-ball first in the process of pocketing the called stripe or solid. However, when the table is open and the 8-ball is the first ball contacted, no stripe or solid may be scored in favor of the shooter. The shooter loses his turn; any balls pocketed remain pocketed; and the incoming player addresses the balls with the table still open. On an open table, all illegally pocketed balls remain pocketed.

11. CHOICE OF GROUP. The choice of stripes or solids is not determined on the break even if balls are made from only one or both groups. THE TABLE IS ALWAYS OPEN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE BREAK SHOT. The choice of group is determined only when a player legally pockets a called object ball after the break shot.

12. LEGAL SHOT. (Defined) On all shots (except on the break and when the table is open), the shooter must hit one of his group of balls first and (1) pocket a numbered ball, or (2) cause the cue ball or any numbered ball to contact a rail.

PLEASE NOTE: It is permissable for the shooter to bank the cue ball off a rail before contacting his object ball; however, after contact with his object ball, an object ball must be pocketed, OR the cue ball or any numbered ball must contact a rail. Failure to meet these requirements is a foul.

13. "SAFETY" SHOT. For tactical reasons a player may choose to pocket an obvious object ball and also discontinue his turn at the table by declaring "safety" in advance. A safety shot is defined as a legal shot. If the shooting player intends to play safe by pocketing an obvious object ball, then prior to the shot, he must declare a "safety" to his opponent. If this is NOT done, and one of the shooter's object balls is pocketed, the shooter will be required to shoot again. Any ball pocketed on a safety shot remains pocketed.

Alguem me consegue dizer incluindo tu Viseu onde é óbvio que não se pode dizer safety na escolha de bolas????????????????

Como podes aqui ver, com mesa aberta, podes jogar á preta, não perdes o jogo e não é falta.

Por e simples,entrepassa a vez. Mesmo que metas alguma bola.


Quais são as regras da federação ???????


----------------



E, no ponto 11 esta a resposta à nossa questão:

"The choice of group is determined only when a player legally pockets a called object ball after the break shot."

Ou seja:

A escolha de grupo é determinada só quando um jogador mete legalmente uma bola anunciada após a tacada de saída.

.....


Logo, desde que não anuncies buraco nenhum ou, se for obvio anuncies defesa, dás uma tacada legal mas, não escolhes grupo


Nestes merdas das regras o je é fodido hihihi.



Still wana bet

[Antonio Neves]

Já agora gostava que o Viseu me responde-se, qual é a base que justifica não se poder dizer safety na escolha de bolas????? ao ponto de dares essa resposta.

"...em todo o mundo é assim ponto."

Queres apostar???

Já descobris-te a base ?????

[Davidaniel]

É obvio que não podes anunciar buraco em safe lololol
Se anuncias-te buraco, é porque queres que a bola conta, se a bola conta, está escolhida serie, mas, tens de ser tu a jogar de novo.

Vou colocar aqui um possível cenário, para ver se realmente é isto que poderá acontecer...

Imagina tu Viseu abres o jogos não metes bola.

Eu vou para a mesa o grupo das lisas ta péssimo e as listas prontas para a acabar, no entanto apenas consigo jogar a uma bola lisa que se encontra a cair para o buraco e digo safe,dando a oportunidade de tu jogares mas sem conseguires ver as bolas listadas, uma vez que essa seria uma jogada que me permitiria ainda poder escolher as bolas listadas correcto ???

Ou se a bola estiver a cair mesmo dizendo safe fico logo com o grupo escolhido ?

Abraço

[nuno bernardes]

sublinha na regra a base. A regra diz ao embolsares uma bola anunciada é jogo escolhido ponto. No safety não diz que é proibido ser na tacada de escolha certo??? ainda não percebi a tua base!!!!!!!

[nuno bernardes]

O engraçado é que já ouvi outros grandes conhecedores das regras a dizer o inverso e que tal pedires ao Green Leanders para te responder a esta questão?????

[rochinha25]

É obvio que não podes anunciar buraco em safe lololol
Se anuncias-te buraco, é porque queres que a bola conta, se a bola conta, está escolhida serie, mas, tens de ser tu a jogar de novo.

Vou colocar aqui um possível cenário, para ver se realmente é isto que poderá acontecer...

Imagina tu Viseu abres o jogos não metes bola.

Eu vou para a mesa o grupo das lisas ta péssimo e as listas prontas para a acabar, no entanto apenas consigo jogar a uma bola lisa que se encontra a cair para o buraco e digo safe,dando a oportunidade de tu jogares mas sem conseguires ver as bolas listadas, uma vez que essa seria uma jogada que me permitiria ainda poder escolher as bolas listadas correcto ???

Ou se a bola estiver a cair mesmo dizendo safe fico logo com o grupo escolhido ?

Abraço

Foi precisamente assim que, supostamente, me aldrabaram.

[Antonio Neves]

É obvio que não podes anunciar buraco em safe lololol
Se anuncias-te buraco, é porque queres que a bola conta, se a bola conta, está escolhida serie, mas, tens de ser tu a jogar de novo.

Vou colocar aqui um possível cenário, para ver se realmente é isto que poderá acontecer...

Imagina tu Viseu abres o jogos não metes bola.

Eu vou para a mesa o grupo das lisas ta péssimo e as listas prontas para a acabar, no entanto apenas consigo jogar a uma bola lisa que se encontra a cair para o buraco e digo safe,dando a oportunidade de tu jogares mas sem conseguires ver as bolas listadas, uma vez que essa seria uma jogada que me permitiria ainda poder escolher as bolas listadas correcto ???

Ou se a bola estiver a cair mesmo dizendo safe fico logo com o grupo escolhido ?

Abraço

Não percebo a questão David ???

Se em mesa aberta, metes a bola em safe, passas a mão ao adversário e, a mesa continua aberta.

é igual a meteres uma bola do teu grupo durante a partida, por e simplesmente como estava aberta, continua aberta.

É como eu disse antes, se não a meteres em safe, anuncias um buraco do outro lado da mesa, ela entra no obvio, o que acontece